Actually will be basically a fully tiled wet room. Afterwards, a shower pan liner is installed on top of the slope bed, flattened and stretched tight across the shower pan and stapled into place roughly 6 inches up the wall studs. It would always be wise to waterproof the seat in some manner. Before the liner is installed, a solid subbase must be installed to create a smooth and uniform slope to the drain. Come join the discussion about tools, projects, builds, styles, scales, reviews, accessories, classifieds, and more! With the liner installed and visible, the next step is the leak test. Did the drapes in old theatres actually say "ASBESTOS" on them? . He studied architecture at Taft Junior College. DITRA-XL is 5/16 (7 mm)-thick and allows for ceramic tile application over single layer plywood/OSB subfloors on joists spaced at 24 (610 mm) o.c. All trays feature integrated KERDI waterproofing and are available in several sizes to fit a variety of shower configurations. Place the level across the pan or base to determine if it is level both ways. VerticalScope Inc., 111 Peter Street, Suite 600, Toronto, Ontario, M5V 2H1, Canada. Increasing subfloor thickness under new shower pan, Installing ceramic tile on top of wooden bathroom floor. Mix a batch of skimming mortar in a bucket or mixing tub, using fresh water and a wooden trowel. per ft. toward weep holes in the subdrain. Acrylic shower pans are the least expensive type of pan and can last for about 10 years before there could be a crack or leak. The KERDI-SHOWER-TT prefabricated sloped shower trays eliminate the need for a mortar bed which ultimately reduces the weight and installation time. Helping You to Do It Yourself! The dimensions will be about 40" x 10' (mud shower pan over entire area). Tile is installed over DITRA using the thin-bed method in such a way that the mortar becomes mechanically anchored in the square, cutback cavities of the matting. Which one to choose? Mix and place the first mortar layer. See Recessing the Shower Floor Technical detail here. A piece of plywood can be purchased in 1/2 or 3/4 thickness, and most cement backer boards will be 1/4, 1/2, or 5/8 thick. I plan to use blocking, and I suppose I could put 2 pieces of blocking between each joist. This one starts at around 1 1/2 inch thick at the drain and should slope outwards 1/4 inch for every linear feet away from the drain. DITRA has a nominal 1/8" (3 mm)-thickness which minimizes tile assembly thickness. In such a high humidity environment, I'd remove the existing sub-floor and put in pressure treated plywood in the entire room. Home Improvement Stack Exchange is a question and answer site for contractors and serious DIYers. Whatever the drains shape and location, the sloped subbase is critical to moving bulk water from the shower floor, and the sneaky water that gets through it, toward the drain. JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. I removed these and droped the 3/4 OSB subfloor only in the shower area. Run a thin bead of silicone around the perimeter of the drain. The subfloor needs to be a minimum of two layers of 3/4-inch exterior grade plywood before you can move to actually putting down the concrete layer of deck mud that provides the slope and the base for the shower pan tile. By clicking Accept all cookies, you agree Stack Exchange can store cookies on your device and disclose information in accordance with our Cookie Policy. Shower basins are called pans, floors, or receptors. Seems like 2-3 inches. Increasing subfloor thickness under new shower pan, New blog post from our CEO Prashanth: Community is the future of AI, Improving the copy in the close modal and post notices - 2023 edition. A subfloor is the layer at the very bottom of your shower pan. When choosing your subfloor material, take into consideration how the thickness will effect the overall heigh of the built up shower pan in relation to your shower curb. Designed to accommodate the KERDI-DRAIN point drain, the KERDI-SHOWER-T/-TS/-TT shower tray can be installed over a recessed subfloor to create an even transition from the floor tile right into the shower. Bases come in a variety of materials, from acrylic, molded stone, and fiberglass. VASPKIT and SeeK-path recommend different paths. Ask an assistant to help position the shower base or pan in place, with the hole for the drain centered over the drainpipe or hole in the subfloor. Generally speaking, the subfloor should be a minimum of -inch thick for any wet application. The system can also be customized with floor heating cables to create a warm, luxurious tile floor. 3. I'm going to be using the Kerdi shower pan and membrane to seal a steam shower. It's about how it looks and how it feels underfoot. Further, DITRA performs all these functions while still providing adequate support/load distribution for the tile covering. Measure from the liner to the top of the 2 x 4. Learn more about the essentials of waterproofing. I am putting in a whole new floor, joist and all, and the span is the 40". First, am I correct in determining 1/2" as not enough support ? Resting above the waterproof membrane is a second bed of mortar that generally follows the same contours as the preslope. This question is specifically about the subfloor. Align the longer edge of the sheet at one side of the . The curb is between two inches and six inches above the level of the shower drain. DITRA provides uncoupling to prevent cracked tile and grout. If the subfloor is completely flat and level, proceed to step 3. With the utility knife, create slits for the four bolts on the shower drain to protrude upward. The liner is a PVC or other polymer membrane that rests on top of the preslope. See Recessing the Shower Floor Technical detail here. Floating Tile Floors: Basics and Availability, How to Install Floor Cement Board Underlayment for Tile, Prefabricated Stall vs. Tiled Shower: Product Comparison Guide. We are putting in a shower in our bathroom remodel. I ripped my old shower down to the studs and joists. This provides the bonding element for the concrete and gives it something to hold onto. Field-fabricated shower pans (or receptors, as the code refers to them) have been acknowledged by plumbing codes at least as far back as the 1955 Uniform Plumbing code. ANSWER - First of all, the way you construct a shower pan is to first apply a pre-sloped mortar bed to establish a slope to the drain of 1/4" per foot. The first step in a site-built shower pan installation and the first signal to the inspector of whats to comeis the two-part drain assembly. Use mortar between OSB and old concrete subfloor, in shower? And if the pan isnt properly sloped to carry water to the drain, water standing in the pan can become a petri dish of bacteria and possibly a slipping hazard. This slope is later refined with a second bed of mortar. You can also use a membrane system, which come in a variety of formats and are either self-adhering or meant to be installed with thinset mortar over the top of the concrete slab. Press the material firmly into the silicone on the shower drain. The same answer, I presume, is applicable to a dry pack pan as well? Free Tile and Stone Installation Guidelines, Why is the Wood Grain Finish on my Glazed Porcelain Tile Coming, Tile Installer Thin-set Standards (ITS) Verification Course. There are many resources available regarding the techniques and skills required to assemble a quality site-built shower pan, but they often fall short in explaining the details required by modern plumbing standards. Clean the Subfloor. This can be concrete or closed cell foam. A typical walk-in shower built on the first floor of a home will be able to rest its weight on the joists without concern. Once it dries, it creates a waterproof barrier over which you can install the tile. Profile that forms a splashguard in curbless showers. Ideally you would need to cut single, large pieces and screw them into the running boards or concrete slab. These instructions assume you are building a shower pan on plywood subflooring, but if you are building a DIY shower pan on concrete slab, you will need to consider a riser kit. The hyperbolic space is a conformally compact Einstein manifold, Counting and finding real solutions of an equation. In order to add support and reinforce the subfloor structure, you can add a secondary layer that the built up shower pan will sit on top of. In order to pull this off I would need to add joists that line up with the dimensions of the shower. Thus, additional measures must be taken to protect wall cavities from water and vapor penetration. Thanks for contributing an answer to Home Improvement Stack Exchange! While cement backer boards are moisture-resistant, they are not waterproof. Whatever the product, the liner must extend at least 2 in. Top-quality cast iron shower pans are very costly yet also very durable and can last for decades. Remove any residual mortar by hand or with the trowel. beyond and around rough jambs at the opening and at least 2 in. U.S. Tile Consumption Increased in Q3 2022, Despite Rising Prices. 22K views 1 year ago Installing an acrylic or fiberglass shower pan using a mortar bed increases the strength and longevity of your shower pan. The first step is to determine the depth of the shower pan. The drain must be sealed so the pan can be filled with water to a depth of at least 2 in., measured at the threshold. For curbless showers without such a dam, the floor-level threshold at the opening serves the same purpose. 2023 The Taunton Press, Inc. All rights reserved. This includes mud-floated showers. You should end up with material leading to the edge of your framed walls and shower curb. Prefabricated shower tray: Schluter-KERDI-SHOWER-T/-TS/-TT, 3. This is often just a piece of lumber laid in place with an additional length of liner draped over it. Waterproofing corners Schluter-KERDI-KERECK, 1. 2 inches of shower pan is not excessive if its an old school dry pack with a Pre slope. The flange is a 1/8" thick, 5" high FRP composite MATERIAL that is designed to rise between the stud wall and the showers backer wall. Install the Subfloor. What should I follow, if two altimeters show different altitudes? If necessary, lift the pan or base out of the way and install additional deck screws or level a low spot. Therein the new sheathing would not run under the wall and the wall would be now supported by the blocking. What do I do about the Missing Stair Nosing and Short Stair Tread. A major perk of site-built shower pans is that they allow the installation of custom tile, stone, or other aggregate floor surfaces. What is the final thickness of a DIY shower pan? Emily Estep is a plant biologist and journalist who has worked for a variety of online news and media outlets, writing about and editing topics including environmental science and houseplants. Learn more about Stack Overflow the company, and our products. Browse other questions tagged, Start here for a quick overview of the site, Detailed answers to any questions you might have, Discuss the workings and policies of this site. It only takes a minute to sign up. The shower pan should be slightly larger than the drain assembly. Lay the waterproofing material on the floor of the shower, running it about five inches up each of the walls. If you were going to tile the rest of the room, I'd consider adding another sheet of ply, at least 3/8" thick (the thinnest suitable to a second layer with tile) under the whole floor. Hardwood Flooring. Your email address will not be published. Remove the top section of the shower drain by unscrewing or unbolting it. Replace the top cap and screw or bolt it tightly into position. This doubles as an anti-fracture membrane which is painted onto the surface of the concrete with a paintbrush or a paint roller. Get your 2 x 4 (which is actually 3 1/2 x 1 1/2 - economy I guess) and set it on top of your drain (Figure 1). Coat both sides of the seam with the primer or sealer appropriate to the material, covering about 4 inches from the edges. Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience. It is normal to have a shower curb/dam. Tiling Project Guide. The code offers a number of choices for this application, from the time-tested but relatively outdated use of lead sheets and hot-mopped layers of asphalt felt to the common plastic liners used today. thickness, and include a range of dimensions such as: 5 ft. x 6 ft. 6 ft. x 33 ft. 5 ft. x 40 ft. 4 ft. x 50 ft. 5 ft. x 50 ft. 6 ft. x 50 ft. DITRA-XL is 5/16 (7 mm)-thick and allows for ceramic tile application over single layer plywood/OSB subfloors on joists spaced at 24 (610 mm) o.c. Would you ever say "eat pig" instead of "eat pork"? Generic Doubly-Linked-Lists C implementation. A standard material used for a subfloor is going to be a cut to size plywood, mainly due to its availability. Donato Pompo, CTC CMR CSI CDT MBA, is the leading tile and stone forensic expert and consultant in North America, and he is a National Tile Contractors Association Recognized Consultant. Layers of a shower pan. After the drain is set into the shower floor, measure the height from the subfloor to the top edge of the drain, deducting the thickness of the mortar bond coat and tile being installed. There are no special qualifications necessary to observe a wet floor, so the inspector should have little to do other than nod at a full pan and a dry floor. Free-space on the underside of the matting provides a route for excess moisture and vapor to prevent damage to the tile layer above. How to Replace Shower Pans in Fiberglass Showers, How to Convert a Tub-Shower Enclosure to a Freestanding Shower, Life of an Architect: How to Build a Shower That Won't Leak, Today's Homeowner: Installing Tile Over a Wood Subfloor, The Floor Elf: How to Create a Shower Floor, Houzz.com: Doorless Showers Open a World of Possibilities, How to clean a showerhead, according to an expert. Waterproofing corners Schluter-KERDI-KERECK. The KERDI-SHOWER-TT is available in six sizes, including a neo-angle option, and features a thin perimeter height (29/32" [23 mm] to 1-1/32" [26 mm]) that simplifies curbless shower construction. Thanks for contributing an answer to Home Improvement Stack Exchange! 4. One side will be resting on a wall, the other side the joists will be hung. You can now add the rest of the cement boards down to the level of the mortar bed. DO NOT NAIL OR SCREW ANYTHING INTO THE PAN. This may require the services of a qualified design professional (e.g., architect, engineer, etc.). KERDI-BOARD, a multifunctional waterproof building panel, gives you more control over your tile installation project by providing you with the means to simply and easily create ideal substrates for tile. Once the moisture barrier is in place, a layer of wire mesh or chicken wire is put down and stapled to the subfloor. While the detail images below demonstrate options for KERDI-DRAIN, please note that raising the bathroom floor is also possible with KERDI-LINE. Stand in the base or pan to determine if the subfloor is stable. With the KERDI-LINE linear drain, the floor is sloped on a single plane which allows the use of large-format tile. DITRA performs all these functions while still providing adequate support/load distribution for the tile covering. Although curbless showers that were originally meant for handicap showers has become more popular and more in demand. The nominal 5/16 (8mm) thickness minimizes tile assembly thickness. New blog post from our CEO Prashanth: Community is the future of AI, Improving the copy in the close modal and post notices - 2023 edition. Synopsis: Code expert Glenn Mathewson explains the details required by code and modern plumbing standards when fabricating a shower pan, including the two-part drain assembly, the subbase material and slope, the curb height, and the liner application. Bonded waterproofing and vapor-retardant membrane, Waterproof, multifunctional tile substrate and building panel. in reply: 1) Lawrence Taylor - The subfloor is the first layer of plywood over the joists, which I lowerd about 1 1/2 inches by removing 2-by material that was put over these joints by the last guy who remodeled this bathroom. One side will be resting on a wall, the other side the joists will be hung using strong-ties or the like. 75mm) up to 75 mil (1. Actually will be basically a fully tiled wet room. Its strong. Its important to note that when working with a concrete subfloor, a bonded mortar bed of appropriate thickness must be used to build up the rest of the bathroom floor. Where you have obstructions such as pipes, use one-by-six lumber or use a router to create a groove to accommodate the obstruction. Point drain with integrated bonding flange. While the 1955 code permitted site-built pans only in special cases where the installation of a premade pan was demonstrably impractical, such pans are now common and have their own provision in section P2709 of the IRc. After 5 minutes, try to separate the seam. Contact us: 888-472-4588 But you did not actually answer his question. Yes, it is important to lay subfloor down before installing a shower pan in the bathroom. Remove any residual mortar by hand or with the trowel . DITRA-HEAT features a thickness of 1/4" (5.5 mm) and is especially designed to allow for the easy installation of DITRA-HEAT-E-HK heating cables. Which ability is most related to insanity: Wisdom, Charisma, Constitution, or Intelligence? Continuing Education for Architects & Designers. Because they act as dams that can raise water level in the shower area, the top of an included curb becomes the benchmark for the height of waterproofing. The shower pan preslope is a mortar base that creates the general tapered slope for the shower pan. Modern shower styles use offset drains or linear drains for a sleek look that keeps the drain out from underfoot when showering. Prepare subfloor and drain plumbing. The Fora platform includes forum software by XenForo. Build a high border around the perimeter of the shower, about 1/4-inch below the tile top perimeter line. Install the liner over a pre-sloped bed, as I explain here. It is going to be 4 tall or so from the bathroom floor. Made of soft polyethylene and featuring an anchoring fleece on both sides, KERDI is easily anchored to the substrate using thin-set mortar. Blocking allows you to run the waterproofing material up the sides of the shower, which creates the DIY shower pan liner. This secondary layer can be added on top of the running boards or concrete slab. A piece of plywood can be purchased in 1/2 or 3/4 thickness, and most cement backer boards will be 1/4, 1/2, or 5/8 thick. CTRL + SPACE for auto-complete. I understand the process of installing the membrane, deck and preparing the wall and ceiling substrate. Premanufactured panels and pans as walk-in showers can be installed directly over the top of the concrete without any concern. Cut two-by-six lumber to fit between the studs of the shower stall. The entire shower will be done with Kerdi. Different options and thicknesses of DITRA membrane are available to best suit the needs of your project. Curbs must be at least 2 in. Hammer down any protruding nails used to fasten the subfloor to the floor joists below. See technical detail for how. 3. Become a member and get instant access to thousands of videos, how-tos, tool reviews, and design features. or 40 mil. A fully waterproof assembly is easily achieved by sealing seams and fastener penetrations with KERDI-BAND.